So that's very interesting.

That's a nice bridge to another thing that I wanted to ask you about.

Because all these changes in the system obviously were brought on by something.

And of course those things are the highly publicized fraud

cases that we've had recently, especially in social psychology.

And the focus on questionable research practices.

So, I was very interested to hear

you as a social psychologist, what is your experience with that?

How is the field affected by all this negative attention?

>> Well, I think the field is affected in different ways.

Obviously there's the.

Does he affect only the people that have worked directly with people

that have been in fraud cases.

So, people that have worked with people that

have been in fraud cases lose half their CV, because the publications, some of

the publications where one of the authors is a foster are just tainted forever.

So, even if they're perfectly fine and they did all the research themselves,

there's always gonna be this name on there that people know to be wrong.

And so that's not good I mean I think

it has some positive consequences as well we can talk about that.

I think what is really great is the self-cleansing mechanism in science so

if something is based on fraud.

People do try to replicate it, right?

So if there is an counter intuitive finding, people will say well,

I didn't expect it.

That's when they will try to replicate the experiment.

And then if it doesn't work or

if they find it works only under very particular circumstances, then at some

point the effects and its impact also on the environment is going to be diminished.

>> Right. >> And I don't think of people

as such a big impact.

So one of the things that I heard for

instance from one of the biggest fraud cases, is that as it turns out,

all the publications, or a lot of publication that this person had,

ended up not being part of very important pieces of the literature.

So if you would let, let's say a handbook of that field,

you wouldn't even find this person's name mentioned a lot

because it's findings are not necessarily very interesting to the field and

also because it don't replicate you won't find many replication.

You'll just find one.

>> Right.

>> So I think that's, I mean, I think it's great.

I mean, obviously It's negative in the sense that it leads to a very bad taste,

and it can leave people very disappointed with their field, or

we can talk about that.

>> Yeah, I was gonna ask you,

You left university, to work for a commercial company.

So did any of this negative attention, have an influence?

Did we scare you away?

>> They didn't.

It's just the commercial companies, you just make so much more money.

>> [LAUGH] >> That I just

thought I would go for that.

No honestly though, I must say that I wasn't that affected by it.

Obviously my field is still under attack and that's not fun,

and I've heard of other colleagues that have said well I would

love to work at your company as well.

Because of this but they were half joking.

Everybody still loves their work and these are very dedicated people.

And I think we'll endure I'm sure.

And it'll be fine.

So not for me personally.

>> But it must be hard for some people for example who were PhD students for

people who committed these fraudulent acts.

I can imagine some careers that could have been beautiful.

>> Right.

>> Were sort of destroyed.

>> Yeah. >> By this.

>> Oh, for sure.

Careers were destroyed, and that obviously is horrible and

these people may not think they have a future in our field.

But I've even heard of people that work with fraudsters and

then at the university where they currently work they were told well

we believe in you so you can stay on and you can just rebuild your CV.

They were just so disillusioned that they didn't want to.

And decided I'm just not gonna continue cuz

I don't like working in a field like this.

And I think what is also interesting, if you're very successful,

people automatically assume that you may be a fraudster.

Cuz, I mean, if you use fraud in your research

there's only one point to do that right, and that's to publish,

unless you are very dedicated to bring out false information into the world.

>> Yeah. >> I think these people are very focused

on career.

>> Right.

>> So, everybody that has a career is now under a lot more scrutiny and

that means that people that are maybe very, very good and very productive

usually will become less productive because people question their research.

>> Right.

That can have a big impact, right?

That can be- >> It can, yeah.

>> So there's stories- >> Horrible thing happen to you.

Yeah, it can be a terrible thing to happen.

So for some people, it means that their work is interrupted for months and

that they're under scrutiny for months.

And that's not just one person.

Right? Cuz they also have people that they work

with and.

>> Right.

>> Yeah, it can have a lot of impact.

Research Designs - Interview - Maarten Bos (Part 3 of 4)

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