Has that changed, or are we still on that thing about, well,
this green stuff can cost money, so I'm not going to do it, I'm going to build
a bigger shell I can, as cheaply as I can, and we'll let the chips followed in me.
>> Unfortunately there is still a disconnect between making that
upfront investment that's going to save in the long term,
it's hard to show the value sometimes.
Especially, if we're looking at the productivity gains.
That's much harder to quantify.
People can understand the energy impact,
but still sometimes there's the disconnect between what my capital budget is, and
what my operating budget is, even within the same organization,
two different people control those budgets and how they work together, or not.
Is still kind of a problem that we're trying to overcome.
I still like to go back to that chart, and
talk about the disparity between what they're paying for their workers, and
their energy to try to appeal to them on a dollars per cents basis.
>> And it really comes down,
we just don't understand life cycle thinking very well apparently.
because if you looked at the life cycle, you'd pretty quickly say, yeah,
makes perfect sense to figure out how to finance this invest, because I going to
get the money back sometime, but- >> If they can find the financing,
I mean, that's part of the problem too is having the ability to find that financing.
I mean, some people are ready like a school district, or
something that has a bond that has a find the amount of money that they've already
borrowed they want make that investment.
But there are so many things that they have to use that money
for, it's hard to balance it sometimes.
>> Now, you would think that the geniuses at Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, and
Lehman Brothers, that nearly crashed our economy a few years ago,
could create a vehicle to do this, would you?
>> I would think so. >> [LAUGH]
>> I would hope so.
[LAUGH] But with something creative.
>> Yeah, yeah, if they could get 10%.
And in fact, we do, we have energy savings contracts, and some things like that,
but they haven't been brought in to the construction phase,
it's usually some sort of a remodeling, retrofit.
>> Right, something for an owner to use after the fact.
Which then, it's a lot more expensive to try to fix it,
instead of it it had been done from the beginning, so.
>> That leads to, I think, a really interesting topic.
because you work with a lot of renovations, and, I know, that building