I am so excited today to talk to my former boss, a real public health leader, a global public health leader, Gina McCarthy, former administrator of EPA under President Barack Obama. Before that, she led the Air Program of the EPA, and she has been a life long public servant dedicated to improving public health. Just by way of introduction, Gina, I still remember my job interview with you before being selected to serve in the administration, and you told me how important it was to emphasize the public health message related to environmental protection. You certainly have been such a good advocate and spokesperson for the public health environmentally. So, welcome, and it's great to have you here. Well Tom, it's great to be here. One of the reasons why we had that discussion as we both understand that the environment isn't really about birds and bunnies and polar bears, which we all love, it really is about human health and our ability to protect ourselves from pollution and protect our natural resources, so that we can have clean air to breathe, clean water to drink, and healthy places to live. So, it really is all about public health including the challenge of climate change. I think you hit such an important issue. For many people, unfortunately, the image of climate changes are melting glacier far away or something that's going to happen far into the future. But as we know, it's changing things right now, and it's affecting communities all over the globe. Tell me a little bit about your perspective on these public health impacts not in the future but that are happening now that we have to be concerned about. I think that's an issue that I think both you and I focused a lot of attention on, and that's really what I'm trying to do today because what we found is even in the United States, although at this point federal leadership isn't where it needs to be, 70 percent of the people in the United States understand that climate is changing, that human emissions are the significant factor in the acceleration in the change of climate but they don't really understand that it's about them, their public health, their family. They think it's a far off place and they don't connect personally, and that's a big problem because climate change is about our public health, our kids, and our future. It both directly impacts public health and indirectly, and I think in many ways, we focus too much on the big exacerbating issues like the wildfires that we're seeing or droughts, which are big, big changes but little things happen every day and we could feel it today. President Obama said that we are the first generation to feel the impacts of climate and the last to be able to do something about it. What he meant is that, you're not only experiencing fires and droughts but you're experiencing heat events, where people are being harmed, you're experiencing excess air pollution like ozone that hotter weather contributes to. You're looking at opportunities for and seeing shifts in vectors of pollution which will change the kind of diseases that were exposed to and our ability to be able to detect and fight those readily. You're looking at changes in contaminates our water system and opportunities for more pollution in our waters and more damage that individuals will feel and families. So, it's not just about droughts, it's about water quality. It's not just about heat, it's about our air pollution. So, we are seeing those impacts today and we're seeing them obviously in the health and safety. Really, the mental challenges that we all face when you have serious problems like the hurricanes we're seeing, the floods, the droughts. The really incredible forest fires that are more intense and more frequent than ever before, and these I think the issues that are taking a toll on us and threatening our security and our sense of home and safety, which means a lot I think to all of us. Absolutely. Well, Gina, you have been a tireless supporter of things and we all work to support the nation and President Obama, who work for the Paris Accords. So, I know there's been a major shift, and one of the toughest days for me was back in June last year when I saw the dramatic shift in policies in the US, but when I got in touch with you, you were still optimistic about the progress and about the things that communities and states were doing. I would love you to share a little bit of that message. Well, I'm pretty sure I'm not delusional, Tom. So, let me explain. Because I think this is most important for folks internationally who are looking here. They need to know a couple of things one is that I know that federal leadership is lacking and I know they have every intent to roll back the actions we took under the Obama administration, but let me just quickly say a couple of things. One is, that the actions we took during the prior administration, the actions like setting standards on power plants and looking at more fuel efficient vehicles. I mean, I'm very confident that we followed the law, we followed science, we produced a great record, we did really good outreach. I'm confident that even the intent, which is just beginning the opportunity to roll back those rules, it's a long procedural process to do that. None of them have yet been rolled back, and I don't think the courts will allow the roll back because there is no justification for rolling those back. They're sound, they're reasonable, they're based on science. That is how we do our rules and it provides a certainty to both the car industry as well as the utility industry about the rules of the road for them moving forward. So, I'm confident that it's a long time before they can be rolled back and that the courts will be asked to weigh in on this inevitably, and I think we will win. But regardless of that, I want people to understand two things. One is that the clean energy train in this country has already left the station. What I mean by that is it's a market in terms of how we generate our electricity, it's determined by cost in renewable energy, and energy efficiency continues to exceed expectations in terms of how inexpensive they are. They are simply out competing coal, and that's not going to change, and they're beginning in many ways to out-compete natural gas. So, we're seeing a change no matter what regulation say. That's what's happening in this country. In the car sector, we're seeing the same things. We know that the European Union has said they want to ban internal combustion engines in 2040. We're hearing from China, that they are making the same kind of considerations. There is clear signal that we are moving away from fossil fuel in the transportation sector to electric vehicles, and that's great for all of us not just because of how it reduces carbon pollution that fuels climate change but because it's going to help us deliver clean air, which is really important to our communities especially as you move to more urbanized communities, which we're seeing all over the world. If you want to protect public health today and you want to protect our planet and our family's future, then reducing carbon pollution is a great opportunity because it also takes away those threatening conventional air pollutants that impact our health and well-being. So, that's important. So, there are lots of reasons to be very optimistic and also because in the United States, this is important for international folks to understand there are many levels of government with opportunities to make progress moving forward. So while the federal government has decided to be asleep, it has awakened the sleeping giants, the giants of our cities, our mayors are weighing in, our states with governors and legislatures moving forward, and it's awaken the private sector who understands that climate change is happening and we are inevitably moving towards a low carbon future, and all of those, the private sector and other levels of government are acting. They're making pledges, they're taking action, and both Tom and I and others are supporting that by talking about how beneficial a low carbon future actually is not just for our planet's health or polar bears but it is what we need as human beings to continue to thrive and to survive. I know I have three kids and they're the most important things in my life, and if you keep your children in mind, you're really going to want to embrace a low carbon future because in the US, that's where the jobs are, that's where the economic growth is going to be, that's where innovation in science is going to drive solutions that are going to get us where we need to be. Gina, you really talk about how important it is at the local level, at the community level, at the city level. Probably a few years back, most health officers or mayors really thought perhaps that climate change was something happening on the international level or the national level. But now, they've seen up close and personal that it's affecting their lives too in their communities. Now they certainly don't have major budgets to go ahead and start massive construction of seawalls or things like that. However, there are things at the local level that can be very important to public health and I was wondering if you might reflect on that a little bit or share just what your advice would be to front-line professionals, city council members, mayors, and health officers who are grappling with the challenges that they see for their infrastructure, for their transportation, the injury rate, the kinds of things that are happening every day, not just in a hurricane, but every day. Yeah. I'm pretty active in my local level which is in the city of Boston. What cities are beginning to do, and what local health officials and beginning to do, is really look at what are the on the ground threats that they're seeing, and how do they work with communities [inaudible] at the grassroots level is an improvements and adaptations that are important, and it's everything from looking at what are your opportunity [inaudible] to improve [inaudible] in water quality by taking climate actions like reducing emissions that can create localized problems, but also look at your water systems, look at your flood maps, look at how you work with the communities to green your open spaces that reduces both heat Islands and takes care of some of those pressures, but also [inaudible] provides extra water filtration for the water that is moving forward and helped with [inaudible] control. I feel for a lot of folk in United States would be [inaudible] challenged in explaining climate change and climate science, it's difficult, and that may be facing some opposition from folks who really are interested in denying the science of climate. I wouldn't fight with those folks. What you really need to do is just talk about what you're seeing on the ground, and take action. Everybody agrees that this extreme weather events, that you have to protect against floods, you have to look at how your sewers are operating, where your hospitals are? Are they available, accessible, in floods? Are you raising up all of the HVAC systems via hospitals, so they can deal with the emergencies that are bound to come along? So, those are all things you can do without an argument about why it's happening, but just recognize it is happening. If your agriculture isn't interested in talking about climate change, then just talk about how to keep soils and nutrients in the ground where they belong. Stop the flooding, stop the droughts, understand the challenges and work together. This is an opportunity I think for us to really bring more visibility to public health challenges that at least in the United States was sort of taken them for granted that we've made progress because you can't see the pollution like you did before, but we know Tom and you know that we're seeing contaminants and challenges that we've never seen before, and that they still represents significant threats. So, if we can get the politics out of the way, and get people in the forefront, and just take actions that we know and can see that I think we'll be able to significant progress moving forward on issues like climate, but we'll also be able to generate some new momentum for legacy challenges that had been left before. Challenges like lead in drinking water, new challenges like perfluorinated hydro carbons in our water supplies. So, it'll be I think a time for us to regroup and face new challenges as well as try to continue the progress moving forward, so that we don't go back, and the things that we've already resolved. Gina, when we first met it, I was still pretty nervous. It was my final interview in a long vetting process to be appointed, and you asked me your question which I still remember, I still tell my students about which was, what are you afraid of? We won't answer that question right now. But then I asked you a question, why do you want a public health professor to come and help you? Well, Now you're a public health professor. So, first of all welcome to the fold, and it's amazing. Because I feel like I did a good job. You made that public health connection, and now you're a professor at Harvard that's terrific. But as we finish up here, I wanted to ask you, perhaps to give advise. We have such a privilege to teach the next generation of leaders, and advice to the students who are coming in now, who perhaps maybe see some of the challenges that EPA is going through, and the work that we worked so hard on being challenged, but what words of advice do you have for the students or the folks considering about becoming students of public health and environmental science that our schools. Well, a couple of things that just tell them that, I've been in public service now for I don't know 35, 40 years, and I have loved every moment of it. Public service to me is just fulfilling my life's dream of doing something meaningful with my life of contributing to the world, and I know folks get into public health for that very reason. They want to be part of solutions, they want to help their communities and protect the families and their kids, and it still is valuable if not a more valuable and vital thing to do today, than it's ever been because we're facing challenges that are more complicated than ever. So, I would still encourage people to get into public health. One of the things I'm trying to do here at Harvard is to make sure that the students get a chance to see how important their work is. Because there's a lot of people hunker down doing research in peer reviewed science, and I just want them to know that what they do matters. What researchers tell us from science is the basis for good decision-making for moving forward. Science is what's brought us the innovations that are so important. That I mean this is where it's all about this is why the United States is in my opinion as successful in terms of its economy as it is, is because we want to live here. We love it here. That's because we've made such tremendous progress and making it a healthy place to live and raise a family, and if you want to be part of that, now is the best time in the most vital time for you to actually participate. So, don't be shy, don't worry about whether you like the way the federal government is moving forward or not. The simple fact is that government is of by and for the people, if you care about these issues, then participate. Either become a public sector representative and get into government, get into public service or vote. I'll work in your own community voluntarily. There is so many things that you can do that make your life meaningful, and make others life's more happier and healthier. Great. Administrator, professor, boss, friend, Gina McCarthy. Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts with us today, and especially thank you for all you have done and continue to do for our public health and for our environment. It was great to talk to you today. Tom, thank you for all of the work that you have done over your life, and for coming to work at EPA. You are not just a phenomenal human being, but you were one of the best gifts that I brought to EPA. So, thanks for coming. Thanks. What you do is important, and I love you. Same here. It's mutual and what a wonderful exciting time despite how hard we work, it was always such a joy to work with you and the team. We definitely had the A-team. We sure did. Thanks Tom. Take care Gina.
