I think we want to start to shift over and chat with you Xinchun Wang. Sure. And in particular, so with this, let's start to focus a little bit more in the sales area and managing the sales function and that type of thing. Also, I guess, I just want to begin with, when we talk about sales and sales professionals and all, what are the ethical requirements, what are the ethical qualities that a good salesperson should have? I think that's a very good question. As we have discussed, I think the standard can vary a lot from country to country depending on the cultural background. But generally speaking, from my observation to my research, I think good salespeople in terms of ethical behaviors, usually are honest. They always tell to the truth. So, they want to tell the exact information their customers are needing so that the customers can make the best decisions. In addition, I think ethical salespeople should always think about customers' benefits. So, if they are selling some product to their customers and the customer do not want it or the customers will not benefit from this purchase, the salespeople are not supposed to sell those products. And more importantly, I know salespeople always make promises. They can achieve this, they can do that, but they should promise things they can do. So, they should tell the truth, they need to think for their customers, and they need to keep their promises. Right. I think those things are quite important for keeping a high standard of ethic. Right. And I think in some ways, you answered my next question but I want to ask it anyways. Okay. But, can you describe some of the unethical behaviors that occur in the sales arena? Yeah. What are the kind of things that we see, that go on there, that are kind of not necessarily very ethical? Okay. So, unfortunately, unethical behaviors happen every day in sales area. One common observation is that when a salesperson is interacting with his or her customers, these salesperson we'll learn a lot from the customers. Like what is the most popular product on the market and what the customers are wanting and need. So, those information are quite valuable. And sometimes, some salespeople will share those critical information with competitors over their customers. So, they are not supposed to do so, because they need to keep the customers' information confidential. Right. And those sharings, of course will benefit their competitors but will hurt the customers a lot. So, I will say this is a typical unethical thing salespeople usually do in everyday practice. I think the other thing if I could maybe add to this, maybe you have a thought or two, would be that often in the sales area, there can be such pressures put on salespeople in terms of sales and all of it. At times, selling things to customers that they don't necessarily need or aren't necessarily the best but they're motivated by some other type of pressure that goes on, I would think. So, yes. It happens a lot. I think as Paula described in Wells Fargo's case, I think those salespeople were facing lots of pressure from the top management. Right. So they have to achieve that goals. And sometimes they are motivated by either the salaries or the commissions that they can receive by selling certain products, and sometimes, those products are not the best options for the customers. So, under those conditions, probably, they are not behaving ethically. Right. And I think that you've begun to touch on it, maybe we can talk a little more about this is this notion of what's called role conflict, right? Help us to understand, what is role conflict? Okay. I think that's another good question. Role conflict happens when a salesperson is playing different roles obviously. So, sometimes for example, the salesperson is representing his or her company. So, the salesperson is playing a salesperson's role. But sometimes, he needs to representing the customers as well to exchange information with the company or to negotiate with the company, or to deliver the needs to the managers. So, as you have mentioned, sometimes the salespeople will have lots of pressure from the top and they need to sell the product to the customers, so they needed to play this role. But at the same time, the customers are not wanting those products. So, they needed to think about, okay, those products can generate lots of profits for the companies, but they are not the most or best option for the customers. So, then, the salespeople will face a conflict, so which direction they should go or how do they balance the different expectations coming from different parties. So, now, picking up on this, and Paula help me on this. But isn't also sometimes within role conflict, can there be a conflict between the salesperson's own needs and desires versus their employers', right? I mean. I would think so, yeah. How you want to portray the company, sometimes I think that maybe, how you want to portray the company is not what you're getting from above. Yeah. And of course, you've got the other conflicts going on as well. How you want to be a family person, how you want to progress in your career. Right. So, this is a course in helping people to become sales managers and to follow that particular career track and all. What are some of the things that a sales manager can do to foster more ethical behavior or to reinforce that that's what they want in their employees? Okay. Of course, there are many things they can do. But I think there are at least the two important things sales managers can do to create a more ethical environment for the employees. So, the first thing they need to do is to establish a clear guideline for what is ethical and what is not ethical. So that the salespeople can understand, okay, what they are supposed to do and what they are not supposed to do. In addition, sales managers can create ethical climate within the organization, so that the salespeople will have a clear understanding of what is ethical, and what's more importantly is that the salespeople will observe what other people are doing. We always have good employees and we have good behaving salespeople, so they will learn from peers. So, with those ethical organizational culture, salespeople will develop a better understanding of ethics. Right. Okay. So, let me challenge you a little on that. So, I don't know for certain but I'd be pretty confident to think that Wells Fargo probably had a code of ethics, and Volkswagen I'm sure had another type of document. I mean the idea of having policies and codes is absolutely important and it is a good thing but, that's not the only thing, right? I mean if that's all you needed, there wouldn't be much of this kind of behavior I don't think. What else do companies do? What are some of the best practices in this arena? Yeah, I think I used that similar case in my class for discussing ethics. So, what happened to you in Wells Fargo, was an outcome of the non-reasonable goals set by the top management. So, whenever they set those unachievable goals, sales people will behave unethically to achieve those goals. So, one thing managers can do is to do some market research to set up a reasonable goal for their employees to achieve, so that the employees, in this case is the salespeople, will have a more motivation to achieve those objectives. At the same time, I think as an employee, individual salespeople also needed to develop their personal standard of ethics. So, they need to have a clear guideline for themselves for what should be done and what should not be done. That is so important and interesting in our course, we've talked about things such as setting sales goals and all. One of the advantages I think of when we talk about a bottoms up approach, which just means you start with your sales people and you ask them what they think they can achieve and then kind of role that upwards and all. One of those advantages is that it tends to keep things maybe a little tighter to what might be reasonable and all. A top-down approach sometimes can get too far from the marketplace and it may come up with goals that are unrealistic and all. So, all of these things all really do tie together, they're not just separate concepts that are out there and all. Are there other things that you've observed or witnessed that are helpful to a sales manager? One more thing I think managers can do is to provide acetone trainings for their employees to receive suggestions otherwise is on how to behave as equally. Sometimes it's the managers are not aware of those unethical behaviors. So, they cannot give effective feedbacks for their employees. But whenever they send out people for acetone trainings, they were exposed to lots of other knowledges. So, they will learn more things, more insights. So, this is one thing I will suggest the managers to do to enhance the ethical environment in their organizations. I would think too Paula, I know this is something that I think you studied in the past but, so much of what we talk about in terms of ethics and appropriate behavior really is so tied to the values of the company and the managers that are behind that, right? I mean. Whether you're supposed to be ethical wink wink. Wink wink is my new thing and what is rewarded. So, what happens when people do the right thing that may have a negative profitability consequence, right? How that situation is handled I believe is important, versus what happens when your top sales people truly breach something that's clearly an ethical violation. We're social creatures, right? We learn from the people around us what is and isn't regardless of maybe what's written down on a piece of paper somewhere. I would think, one of I think the challenges of sales being a sales manager is, you sometimes don't want to look too deeply into things for fear that you may discover something you don't like, right? I mean better if you're just doing a bang up job in terms of sales and you're generating lots and lots of income and that kind of thing well, I want to let that- Exactly. -go along and all so. One of the things that I know is important in creating a very positive ethical climate is this notion of social norms. Paula help us to understand like what exactly does that mean and why is that important? I think a lot of us look to those that are our peers and I was thinking this sales is not my thing, right? Sales management, but you think how active your sales manager and what may be going on below his or her radar, right? Because they're pretty independent folks, right? The salespeople are but they rely on each other as well at that level. Looking at what does your peers really adhere to in terms of their behavior, and whether they're like, "Oh that's just a rule", right? These are the important rules, these are the not important rules, and that I think is very important to create a culture that people are buying into what you as management, what you as a firm want to be. This is our representations of us, this is who we are and that goes way back, right? So, you look at this Aristotle that starts with who I am and my self-definition is the very beginnings of my ethical and my moral development. Paula that is so true. Don't we all have experiences when you've gone into an organization and you after a really pretty quick period of time, you kind of learn about what are the formal rules versus the unwritten rules, and at times that may not necessarily, they may not sink up well. Right. That's an important managerial responsibility is ensuring that there's not a big disconnect to that and all. Well, I'd like to thank you both for being part of this. I think it's been a really interesting conversation in a nice way to kind of reinforce some of the concepts that we've held and all. So, thanks on behalf of our students at Coursera. Thank you very much for being part of our course. Thank you for having me.
