"Searching for the Grand Paris" "What is the TRAM network?" -TRAM, simply, is an organization from 1901, that, from the outset, has been community-based. We are not government officials, but we have partners, institutional partners, who are, on the one hand, the Île-de-France region, one of our main financers, and then the state, through the DRAC Île-de-France, who support our operation. So there are really these two aspects. And obviously, the membership fees, which are the third source of finance, a major source of finance, and also self-financing. The DNA of the network has already been set out. It is both a professional network which allows places organizing art exhibitions to meet, to connect, to work together to create things, and equally, it is a promotion tool, a communication tool, to attract the public into these spaces. And so, since.... There obviously were many stages that were very gradual. There were seven or eight institutions in the Parisian suburbs, and what is interesting is that they were almost all communist, or very left-wing socialist suburbs, with the will to make a "red belt" around Paris, there was a real sense of unity. It has a real political dimension, the creation of the network. Obviously, as the area and the awareness of culture as an economic force grew, the network changed a little bit, but this political DNA is still there and there are still structures that fit into this political dimension. It is interesting, there are still heated debates within the network regarding the nature of the network's action. Is it a network that only communicates or should we take a position on certain political issues ? It is always interesting to see the discussion. Up until the 1990s, the network developed in that kind of manner. Very suburbs-based, very autonomous. At the turn of the 2000s, that is when the network became TRAM, it became more regional and therefore connected to Paris, which was very late, at the end of the 1990s, start of the 2000s. So, it is a suburbs-based network that became a region-based network, but it has its roots in the suburbs. We regularly meet artists in the little... "In the little..." "Little", I do not mean it negatively. In the smallest places in the suburbs, in the art centers in the suburbs, which are more open, which are more free to experiment, with "a return on investment" that is not the same for the larger Parisian structures which have to attract the public, et cetera, and so it is very interesting for us to see the artists start to experiment in the TRAM spaces in the suburbs and later rediscover them in a big exhibition in Paris. I think that in the Parisian suburbs, when the large housing complexes were built, there was this real "red belt", that was a really strong communist area, from the end of the Second World War, which is very important. I think that the cultural dimension, the dimension of mass education, was extremely present. But what happened was all of the actions that were carried out, in the 60s, 70s and 80s, beginning of the 90s, they were actions that were aimed at a population that was already there, which were, as I said, more linked to education for the masses, and then in Paris, we had a culture that was more prestigious. Then a change took place for the large institutions... Well, more for live performance, but also for visual arts, perhaps to a lesser extent, because it is a sector that receives less funding, that is less visible, that has always been a bit unstable, marginalized, but we see the large institutions that started out in the suburbs, such as the cultural center in Créteil, the MC93, various theaters... And so, we have the idea that Paris is expanding for a more specific audience, but unfortunately, it is a kind of one-way street. The people from Paris can very easily come and visit the suburbs. I had the experience recently at a performance at MC93. There was a sort of migration from the Métro, a group of Parisians who came to Bobigny and then returned to Paris after the performance had finished. I think that there are few people living in Bobigny who regularly visit the MC93. We clearly see this aspect, that the Grand Paris is a gentrification from the center out to the suburbs, rather than a rebalancing of all this. Maybe the Grand Paris Express will change that and this centralist dimension will disappear because of its circular nature. "What changes can we expect with the arrival of the Grand Paris?" -I think there is this idea of creating new centers of activity. It is not just the stations. Many property projects will be implemented around these 60 stations or more. I think there is the idea of new towns which will develop, including cultural institutions. I think that the Grand Paris will work for its users, from many different cultural backgrounds. I doubt many Parisians think twice about going to the theater in Gennevilliers or the Théâtre de la Cité internationale. To him, there is no difference. He won't say: "I'm going to see a play in the suburbs, or in Malakoff." On the other hand, when it comes to the Grand Paris itself, there is still a need to seize these cultural skills, especially in areas where there is no obligation to have these skills. Their obligations are related to transport and housing, not necessarily culture. We see that certain areas in Grand Paris are in the process of taking charge of their own cultural skills and facilities, cultural facilities that were managed within communities before urbanization, which is really interesting. For the moment, we have a lot of identification work to do. We had the opportunity to participate in a consultation about Grand Paris. There was a panel of cultural experts. It was really interesting to be able to have a discussion with directors of high-level cultural facilities in Paris and also those working in the suburbs, and compare their opinions. At the moment, we are looking at projects with community interest. And, really this dimension... We should note that it is not just these large visible structures that are deemed "of community interest" and funded by the city. There are also all the little arts centers. "Little," not in a negative sense. These places are less visible, less well-known. Also, it is important to have a presence in all areas, with very flexible and reactive places that work with the community, whilst at the same time acting as places of experimentation and are internationally recognized. They are also part of a network that is local, national and international and that is very, very, very important. Among the art centers, the conventional art centers, which are more recognized by the state, by the profession. There are 11, I think, in the network, mostly outside the city center. In general, contemporary art centers and museums are thought of as tourist attractions by the local authority, from the point of view of the visitor, in terms of visitor numbers. It is more of an attraction. And then there are the facilities in the towns, libraries, conservatoires, so public literature, and the study of music and theater, which are facilities that do not have visitors, they have users. They are different things, they are integrated in a kind of dynamic, the town's appeal to inhabitants rather than visitors. This is something that, in my opinion, has to be developed in a very.... I see it in the local places in the network. So, they are not just places for exhibitions. They are also local art services. They put on classes for adults, classes for children, they have a very specialist exhibition space, which attracts lots of external artists, who will also work with local artists. There is a dynamic like that of a library, for example, which attracts a range of people, people who hold conferences, people who tell stories to children, and it is really important to have this dimension. A place for contemporary art, visual art, has this dimension of being a vital public facility. I think so, as far as the towns surrounding Paris are concerned, which do not attract a lot of tourist activity or do not make a large contribution to the economy. There is that dimension of local public service like you get in a library or a conservatoire. It is very, very important, in my opinion. Aside from the artistic practice. Because there are also art courses, where people can learn how to sculpt, how to paint, how to make pottery, so there is that element of learning.
