So far we have talked about some of the coping strategies that people are able to use in order to deal with the transformation, or termination. But I'm also really mindful of the people who don't really feel like they're at the point that they can even utilize those strategies yet. Like they're just really in a bad spot or kind of in this state of immobilization, and I thought maybe we could touch on that a bit. >> Yeah, I think it is a very good point that you're raising because in our work, as helping professionals, very often we come across people who come to us for professional help because they simply do not have the capacity at that point to be dealing with this independently. So I think the general principle is that when you try to cope, when you try to do your best, and then you find that you are losing control and you cannot really function the way you wanted to. And then, you feel that you're getting worse and things are going out of hand. You can tell yourself that the feelings and the emotions are natural, but it seems that the emotions are getting stronger and they're taking over your life. And you're afraid that you cannot predict or control what tomorrow may look like. I think at that point, it would make perfect sense for you to be seeking help, seeking professional help, more specifically. And yeah, depending on where you are, you may be seeking help from a counsellor, psychologists, or social worker and in some countries and in some social context, you may be seeking help from religious leader, clergy, and you know. You may in some other places like if you live in remote places for example. Maybe your only available help is only provided online. So people would be like seeking different forms of help I guess. And for some of the people taking this course I imagine if you're trying to be helpful to people. >> Find their loved ones when you're seeing them kind of go through that process maybe you can help facilitate a little bit, they might not have the motivation or the ability to really seek out the help for themselves, so you can kind of help facilitate finding the right resources. Right? >> Yeah, and I think by making the help- seeking easier say for example you make the information available and you know have to make the initial contact. It will increase the chance of your friend or person you care for to really seek help. >> Mm-hm. Absolutely.