I'm here with Bill Wake, Agile veteran of 15 plus years, and a major contributor and thought leader in the space. Thanks for joining us Bill. >> It's alright. >> Let's talk about stand-ups and the goal of self-organization. I mean there's this kind of running joke that, if a team does stand-ups, they're going to say that they're doing Agile. Can you kind of unpack that a little bit, and talk about how you really get to that goal of self-organization? >> Sure, I think stand-ups are one of those tools that have been around for a while. I think, I'm not sure if this CRAM community introduced it or who, but it's something to say like, our team is definitely going to get together and communicate everyday about where we are and what we're doing. And if we're starting from some level where we're not talking at all, having that daily get together is going to be an improvement and going to help us. I think the real thing is setting up teams where they share the goals and they share the work, and the extent they're doing that, and working together through out the day, and so on. This may not be the most critical aspect of that, but the real thing I'm saying, we're working on things together, I'm not over here in my cube with my ear phones on, and you're over there in yours. And if we want to talk, we'll chat on the window, even though we could just turn around and talk. That's the kind of environment that we're really strongly against, that we can't get the high levels of interaction and quicker learning, if we're just all very separate like that, and the assumption that we have no overlap. So, any mechanism we can do. So, I work with teams that do pair programming. So, two people working together, and then at some point, they'll talk or swap around and throughout the day, they're going to hear what it is. Other teams will do the mobbing style where we just put the system on the screen, and the whole group looks at it and works together for a while. And they all know what's going on at that point. We've got to have some bubble where the team owns things. And I think that's often the real challenge to say, you're a team that has the capabilities you need. And you've got this mission of what you're trying to accomplish. And I'll trust you to move forward in there. There are things out here that I allow, and there are things further out that I don't allow. But if you're in this space, you own it, and you own it from the ideas to the results, and let's see it happen. That requires a level of trust among the management there, but everybody else to get. But if you want teams to self-organize, you gotta provide teams that can do everything they need and then do it. If you itemize things and then put them in silos, it's really hard to make that happen. Nobody feels that shared ownership of what we're doing. So we're not likely to self-organize into it. We want that context. That's some very practical advice on the goal of self-organization. Thanks, Bill.