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I'm here with Nicholas Kristof and
Sheryl WuDunn and we're going to be talking about A Path Appears and
we're going to be talking about their work both on identifying.
Some of the massive global challenges we have in the world today and
most importantly,
the ways in which many people around the globe are meeting those challenges.
And so, thank you for making the time to talk with me today, and.
Maybe I just start by asking you to talk a little bit about,
how you decided to write this book.
Which is such a,
a wonderful catalogue of the things we can do to change the world for the better.
>> Sure, well, after we wrote Half the Sky about empowering women around the world,
people kept asking us, so what can we do?
And we think there is this, you know, real yearning on, on the part of people to
find a way to give back, to find some kind of source of meaning or purpose in life.
And yet also a frustration that the problem seemed vast, and
sometimes difficult to find a way of having an impact.
I think people are skeptical about corruption, inefficiency.
>> Yes. >> And aid groups.
And kind of question whether anything they do is going to be,
you know, is going to really have impact.
Is going to be more than a drop in the bucket.
And, in fact, it seems to us, that there are ways, one can have an impact.
That there are ways one can address the issues of corruption and efficiency.
And that there's real evidence now in a way that there wasn't ten or
20 years ago, about how one can find the greatest bang for the buck.
>> The book is more than just a catalogue.
It really is taking on some of the largest challenges of the world right now.
And one of those is basically, how do you balance the inequities between the,
the divide, the great divide between the rich and the poor.
We've argued over whether that gap is growing, but
what we start with is that it's there, it's bad and it needs to be resolved.
And so we have.
Of course, interviewed the experts.
>> Yes. >> And talked to them about what works to
basically even out the divide.
And it comes down to, spreading opportunity.
>> You, you're geographically capacious.
You're looking at very different parts of the world, right?
And, and, and did you see very different obstacles to opportunity in
different geographical locations, or did you see the things that,
there was a similar patterns in various parts of the world?
>> I think that one common thread is that typically,
the best escalator out of poverty is education.
>> Yes. >> And education beginning very early.
But another common thread is that, that escalator.
Is often broken for
those who need it most, whether you're talking about Tanzania or about the US.
And we also get asked often by young Americans, you know, shouldn't we
solve our own problems first, before we're worrying about the rest of the world?
And our take is that, look our empathy and our compassion should
not depend on the color of somebody's skin, or the color of their passport.
>> Right. >> And that often,
in fact, we can get more bang for the buck helping abroad than we can at home.
But that also,
conversely, especially among kind of upper middle class American, young Americans,
there is sometimes a sense in which it's cool to go volunteer for a summer abroad.
But that it's not cool to tutor some kid in
the wrong side of the tracks in your home town.
And that we think is easily wrongheaded.
That there are huge needs at home and
abroad, and we shouldn't put them against each other.
>> I think that's really interesting in the context of this class because oh,
more than half of the class, usually two thirds, will be from outside the US.
And one of the interesting things for me is to hear the conversations between
Americans and citizens from all over the world about what they see as
some of the striking, as an American, I spent most of my life in this country.
I, I, I've learned so much from hearing the point of view on America and
American philanthropy from students from all different parts of the world.
>> Well, you know, I mean, giving is such an empowering experience.
And one of the stories we tell in is about a group of Ugandan kids in, in
Northern Uganda some of them were orphans from the brutal still war up there.
And they're attending.
An academy there school, and
they decide that they want to support some American kids.
[LAUGH] And so they, they raise a little garden and raise a,
a tiny amount of money, I think it was about.
$20, $21 and they select a, a group in the US that mentors boys in need.
And so they contact the group and say we want to,
you know, [LAUGH] we Ugandan kids want to support these American boys.
[CROSSTALK] And the American group didn't, I mean they were.
Aghast, they, thought, you know, how, we can't take your money!
But, but then they realized that there is something truly empowering about,
about giving-
>> Yes.
>> And that, you know, one shouldn't rob those kids.
Of that opportunity,
whatever the physical level of economic deprivation they suffered from.
>> Yeah, there actually are scientific dimensions to giving and
we visited some neuroscientists, and actually had our brains scanned as well
just to see what happens when you actually.
Give and also when you receive.
And in some of the research that we discovered.
In one particular survey, half of the research subjects actually derived more
pleasure, when they gave than when they got.
And so that was a very interesting aspect.
>> In that section of the book, you talk about the way in which.
Giving becomes part of one's life, because it is a pleasure that it, it we
biologically, many of us biologically respond to that, that act of giving.
And we want to, we want to have that, that satisfaction again.
We want to feel that again and it sets up this virtuous circle.
That's, that's biologically supported, and not just supported by cultural forces.
>> That's right.
>> Actually, theoretically, it's kind of interesting,
because it does reflect sort of the the, the pleasure centers of the brain.
When you actually give, it stimulates the pleasure centers of the brain-
>> Yes. >> Which are the same
parts of the brain that, of course, we feel pleasure when we eat candy,
or fall in love or flirt, but also when we build up addictions.
>> Yeah. >> Theoretically,
you can get addicted to giving.
>> Yes, and this is a vir, virtuous addiction.
>> Yeah. [LAUGH]
>> Better than some addictions.
>> Yeah, so tell me a little bit about the most surprising things you
came across doing the research for the book.
I mean there are probably.
And so many interesting cases that you des, that you describe and
it's so inspiring.
And I wondered as, as you were finding these really wonderful they're,
they're givers and they're doers, right?
and, and, what, what, what are some of the, the big surprises you had?
>> I think one thing that struck me was, and maybe it goes a little back to
those Ugandan kids, that giving is not so much a reflection of when circumstance is.
In the US for
example, the wealthiest 20% of Americans give less than the poorest 20%.
And this is not a reflection of the fact that affluent people are somehow less
empathetic, or less compassionate, or less good people, but rather it's that
if you are wealthy, you've managed to insulate yourself from me.
You probably live in a nice neighborhood,
you're surrounded by [CROSSTALK] neighbors and co-workers.
>> Yes.
>> Who are also fairly well off.
And so you don't see need.
But on the other hand, if you are poorer in America today,
then every day you encounter people who are even poorer than you, and
when you see that need you respond and you reach into your pocket and help.
It's that kind of encounter I think that builds empathy.
I think we have a huge empathy gap worldwide.
And I think that you know, it's one of the challenges of education indeed to try and
chip away at that empathy gap,
in part by acquainting those who won the lottery at birth.
>> Yes. >> With the situation of
those who have not.